Advertisement
I am going to be really honest and just say that for the most part white folks with dreads don't sit right with me, it seems forced unnatural and kinda contrived and almost bourgeois( the same a black person with chemically straightened hair)
I don't want to pick a fight but I would really like to know why locs?
I have locs because 1, my hair almost locs on its own 2, I am paying respect to my ancestors 3, I know the history and the struggle behind locs and I pay homage to that.
With that in mind I would like to know what dreads mean to somebody that cant not identify with that struggle or history.
I don't want to pick a fight but I would really like to know why locs?
I have locs because 1, my hair almost locs on its own 2, I am paying respect to my ancestors 3, I know the history and the struggle behind locs and I pay homage to that.
With that in mind I would like to know what dreads mean to somebody that cant not identify with that struggle or history.
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, July 16, 2009 - 11:58 AMdreads are beautiful, baby! what other reason does anyone need? if you get over the issue you have with this, you'll be able to better appreciate the variety that non-black hair has to offer this style! it's love, and love is good.
when i was 17 and first realized how beautiful dreadlocked hair was, i mentioned getting them to my boyfriend. he said that i wouldn't be "pretty" with them..i was 17..i didn't do it. this continued for 9 years; every time i wanted to lock my hair, i was told that i wouldn't be pretty that way. the summer i turned 27 (_ten_ years later), after i'd come to peace with the fact that i'm not conventionally pretty anyway, and was tired of giving up the ways that i found myself beautiful (the type of "beauty that moves"), and i decided get myself some of that beautiful, beautiful hair i'd wanted so long. when i look at, play with, maintain (see other people look at, feel other people play with, sit under somebody else helping me to maintain..), i like the way i look- sometimes i can even admit to saying i might be beautiful (at least to me!). i've never, ever been able to do that before.
looking into the history of dreadlocks, you'll also find that other cultures wore dreads. think about the celts! i'm 100% irish, so they are a part of my history (and when we came over we mated with, like, everybody, so nearly everyone has a little in them). i'm hesitant to make this point, though, because it doesn't have to matter (unless it makes you feel good about your hair, but can't it do that without making you feel bad about others' hair?), it's the human race! besides, even straight hair will knot eventually, right (my hair is coarse and wavy, but i'm assuming straight hair would knot eventually..)?
what's most is i feel at home- a feeling i want everyone to have- however they get to it. straight hair, locks, chemical, natural, african american, euro-american whatever (ya, i left out _a lot_ of stuff there- please, noone get offended- i was only addressing what was brought up in the initial note)! we have control over very little outside of our own bodies and, therefore, should relish in seeing someone control that however they see fit (i had to explain this to the principal at my first grader's school after she wanted her hair dyed super-duper hot pink).
i feel like i'm forgetting something obvious.
i love you for posing the question and opening up to the replies you'll get on this one. -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, July 16, 2009 - 5:45 PMAnn,
I love the Ani reference.
She had/has some cool hair, too!
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, July 16, 2009 - 5:55 PMWhat Ann says is true. The Scots and the Irish did wear dreadlocks and they were an oppressed by the English for centuries. (The English oppressed everyone really) So it could be said that Ann is wearing her dreads as an homage to the struggle of her people. But, in fact she isn't. We don't know why individuals to what they do until we ask them, but everyone has the right to do it. What it boils down to, I think, is that in today's society our outward appearance is more about self expression. For instance, I don't wear pants. I prefer skirts and leggings. Now, I know that in some orthodox religious sects, the women choose not to wear pants out of modesty. I choose not to out of personal preference, I don't like the way I look in them. I don't feel like I'm taking anything away from their decision by my decision. What they choose to wear makes them feel like "themselves." and their "self" includes a devout belief system. What I wear makes me feel like my "self," my hair, my makeup, my skirts, all express my artistry . So, I guess what I'm getting at is that anything we do to our outward appearance is simply an expression of our inner "self." I don't think that it has to be more complicated.
-
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, July 16, 2009 - 6:29 PMI would agree with Ann and Sugar...I don't think you can really attribute one style to a particular culture...dreads may have become more popular in this century as an expression of personal preference, but if you really want to think about it, you could probably trace them back to the caveman days...I don't think they developed exclusively from one certain culture...
The closest thing I could compare to this in my way of thinking and in my personal experience, would be to compare it to the evolution of belly dance...you hear so much about exactly where the dance came from, but no one really knows...the base seems to go back to preparing the female body for childbirth, but somewhere along the way, it was shown that the same movements could become a thing of beauty and revelry, to celebrate the power of the female body...
My personal reasons for wanting dreads really have to do with my dance and my way of life...I do ATS (American Tribal Style) and Tribal Fusion belly dance and dreads are very popular with the style of dance and the general feel that we like to convey...kind of like the tendency towards lots of body art and piercings also go along with it...it's a very earthy style and since dreads are more of a boho, earthy style, they seem to fit with the atmosphere of the dance...
Personally, I think that the style of outward appearance always come from the heart and spirit and if you're being true to that, then you're being true to whatever style it is that you choose to project...I don't think it's appropriating another culture, but honouring that which is embedded deep within us as a way of showing our inner selves to the world...whether you want to call it ancestral memory, cultural, or racial...or past life...I think it all comes from somewhere...and I don't think that one culture deserves to employ these styles any more than another...we're all part of the HUMAN race, after all. :-)
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, July 16, 2009 - 6:45 PMAh, yes...Sugar reminds me I forgot to answer the charge of "Cultural Appropriation".
Hair style aside, one is on dangerously thin ice when one speaks of cultural appropriation in a manner implying that each culture (or society) is distinct from jump. It is human to mimic (it is at the core of our ability to communicate in a more articulate manner than other animals) and it is human to experiment and borrow and to misuse/abuse technologies and social structures and fashion (among a long list of other things).
If a person associates "dreadlock" with "black", one would, of course, be mistaken. "Dreadlocks" (by that name) have a distinct cultural history that is not black in general, but is specifically Jamaican. Despite the teachings of Marcus Garvey (who was not Rastafarian, I might add, but raised Methodist and converted to Catholicism) which, as most know, were Afro-centric, the style & the word came from Jamaica. This is, of course, an extremely oversimplified version of history (as I'm sure you know), but it gets the point across quickly....unless one wishes to argue that there IS anything such as a unified "black culture" (or ever was), or that there is any such thing as "white culture" (or ever was).
That said, if one is talking about the style of hair that most people NOW commonly call "dreadlocks" (but in different cultures has been called many things - note the ancient Romans who feared those crazy Scots coming down from the highlands 2000 or so years ago, or the Hindu mystics, or the Biblical references), I would steer them to any number of the books on the subject, or even a simple Wiki article:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadlocks
All THAT said, if one is talking about pissed-off-because-they-don't-have-any-reason-to-be-pissed-off white upper middle class suburban teenagers who decide to smoke pot and blast reggae and where t-shirts of Che Guevara and Marley (as if Che had anything to do with Marley) and the like, or the rich businesses who simply see "reggae culture" as another convenient revenue stream (largely because of the aforementioned teenagers) along with Pier-1 and all things Green, well then I suppose one could get a bit steamed.
Steamed less because of the appropriation of FASHION (that alone is somewhat silly), but because humans think not only concretely, but SYMBOLICALLY.
Cultural appropriation is seen as a dominant culture taking from a minority culture (not just within the same society/geographical area) and stripping those things taken of their meaning. My question is this: If fashion or music or art or poetry or religion or language or architecture (and so on) are taken and the meaning is altered, why do we feel the original source is somehow diminished (especially when we realize those "original source" was likely never very original to begin with)?
Yes, I understand a fat white kid from the 'burbs with long dreaded hair & a fake accent mimicking the style but lacking substance might be annoying to someone who is deeply moved by Marley (or even annoying to someone who dislikes Marley, for that matter - hahaha!), but is it that he isn't authentic that annoys? Is it that others find it entertaining? Is it that someone feels that others find it entertaining AT THE EXPENSE of someone "more authentic"? Is it that he profits financially? Is it that he profits when others don't?
If said fat kid turns others on to beautiful music (or art or religion or art or architecture or poetry or language), has he truly done something less than admirable? Or has he done nothing more than all humans have done that assists in the march of progress in all the history art and religion and music and language and science and technology?
-
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, July 16, 2009 - 6:51 PMOh, as an aside, thanx for the topic.
GREAT topic of discussion. -
-
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, July 16, 2009 - 10:20 PMno kidding! right?
-
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 6:10 PMTotally! I think that this topic had the potential to go very poorly, but we approached it as an intelligent discussion! Good job everyone! -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 10:20 PMCool Beans
thank you for all your responses, all where really from a god honest place
and I learned some things myself
Peace and Blesings -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Sat, July 18, 2009 - 4:46 AMBy the way...loooove your avatar...chick's got attitude!!! :-D
-
-
-
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Sun, July 19, 2009 - 12:16 PMgood to see such positive input in this thread. i was actually taken aback when first read the topic. thought it really could have been worded better. so i bit my tongue =) the dread tribes are my fav because there isnt any BS drama like so many others. adult convos can happen without any power trips.
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Tue, July 21, 2009 - 1:32 PMLike others have said here I dread for a number of reasons. The thing I find very interesting is that the ONLY people who say anything to me about cultural appropriation are white liberals. I have had many a person from the Motherland compliment me on my dreads. My dreads are not forced or unnatural either. What got me thinking about dreading my hair was an incident that happened after I had my second son. My labor was long and difficult and needless to say there was a fair amount of thrashing around on the bed. After it was all done I had managed to put quite a few little dreads in my waist length red hair that took DAYS to comb out and I remember my hairdresser friend (she who helped me come them out and was Jamaican) saying they where so tight and round I should just give in to nature and dread the rest of it. So years later on my 45th birthday I took the plunge and have been happy natty girl for 5 years. Love my locks and would have it no other way.
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 8:42 PMHi everyone! This is an awesome group :)
I'm about to start up dreads, and cultural appropriation was actually one of the things that I thought about... For me the part where they are a cross-cultural phenomenon is a big thing. But at the same time I do think that a lot of white kiddies in America were exposed to dreads via the influx of Rastafari music culture, and there has been a LOT of cultural appropriation going on in that area. I'm not saying that all white people with an appreciation for Rastafari are appropriators, but I have met way too many kids who love Marley and grass but absolutely refuse to engage with any of the issues of the ongoing effects of colonialism etc.
The real bottom line for me is, if white people never borrowed from other cultures, life would freaking SUCK for us. ;p I love bagpipes probably a lot more than the next person, but I really can't imagine my life without rock and roll.
Like I think a lot of people here I'm very into things that are originally from non-euro cultures (in my case belly dance and martial arts), and I definitely have had some dialogues about what this "borrowing" means in terms of white privilege... and not just with other white liberals. I'm really curious, where do y'all think the line between appropriation and healthy cultural exchange is? How does the historical ability of white peoples to define the "official" version of culture/history/etc. play into that? I wrestle with this a lot, and I would love to hear other people's thoughts :) -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, September 24, 2009 - 5:11 AMWelcome aboard, HZ.
The line between appropriation and healthy exchange?
The question assumes a certain "cultural purity" that never existed in the first place, but I think I understand where you're going. You mean like self-proclaimed Rastas (white or otherwise) who don't know who Haile Selassie is or Japanese MMA fighters with Celtic tribal tattoos & blonde hair or rich white Ivy League kids bastardizing inner-city urban slang and blasting DMX out the windows of their graduation-present BMWs - yes? Hahahaha!
I address my take on that in my above post.
Keep us posted on your dread progress!
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, September 24, 2009 - 5:34 AMOne word...respect!!! -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Fri, September 25, 2009 - 12:08 PMdreads are probably the worlds oldest hair style.. In all likely hood Jesus Crist wore his hair in locks . The man was from ancient Mesopatamia
where the mostly everyones hair grew unruly.. They did not have Pantene Pro V, they did not have straightening iorns.. So you can imagine what the result was .... dreadlocks... I have argued this with bible scholars and left them blue in the face... I my self am obviously not African American, however my hair is very curly . When I did not have dreads I would have to brush it out in the shower w/ conditioner daily. If I ever skipped a day I would see the dreads already forming... Im not exagerating , this is the reason mothers teach there daughters to brush thier hair every night before bed and every morning when they wake up...My sister experienced this first hand when she was a child and neglected her hair ,my mother spent hours on end combing out the mess and ultimatley ended up cutting hair into a bob LOL its a bit funny .... Any how I dont pretend to be Rastafari but I do like Reggae music ,Im not celtic but I like Braveheart.. I am however a non- conformist and allowing my body to be taken back by nature is empowering. great responses everyone much love and respect to all
-
-
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 11:48 PMHey man, everyone on this earth identifies with what ever struggles happened many many years ago just as much as anybody...barely. None of us have had to struggle anything other than our own economy for decades and at least not in my generation. We are homoerectus yo...we ALL come from the same ancestors, in fact, ANY two people in this world can be traced back no more than 50 generations, meaning, that we all share a common ancestor. Therefore, 1) p.s. everyones hair locs on its own, believe it or not, 2) all of our ancestors are the same if you want to be technical, the only difference being that somewhere down the line there were groups of people who migrated further from the equator, thus, lightening their skin, 3) Everyone has the right to know the history and "struggle" behind locs which in fact was no struggle at all, it was based on a belief that hair growth is the manifestation of spirit and cutting or shedding your hair would in turn weaken your spirit. What I want to know is why anyone cares? Personally, if I get the impression that someone has dreads for fashion as opposed to spirituality, it bothers me yes, but it is none of my god damn business in the first place, it has no affect on my well being whatsoever, and they're going to end up cutting them anyways and no ones the wiser. If more people worried about how we're the same and the importance of accepting eachother, than we wouldn't have corrupted the world with our foul taste in the first place. I hope you can find your answer.
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Tue, October 6, 2009 - 3:55 PMI worried about this issue when I was starting my dreads... I didn't want people to be upset that a white girl like me had dreads, but I have always found them so beautiful every since seeing them as a little kid. I admit that I was somewhat relieved to read that there is evidence that Celts had dreads since my heritage is pretty much 100 percent Scottish. But I am still a little bit worried about offending black people with my dreads... -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 12:02 AMDon't give a shit what ANYONE thinks, especially black people. If there is any person of african or ANY decent that is offended by the way you wear your hair, they are ignorant, uneducated(since it wasn't originated by "black" people in the first place, and have entirely too many insecurities themselves as a person to really matter. Dreads have been in existance since the first people have, unless combs came before fire...buuuut I HIGHLY doubt that. There are many misconceptions about dreadlocks and them being founded and originated by the black community is just incorrect, in fact, when you see videos of people in africa they're usually bald, the tradition wasn't even introduced to the african culture until indians came to JAMAICA(not africa btw) and introduced that idea. I know ONE person myself that used to have dreads from africa and he cut them meaning one thing, he was not culturally or spiritually tied to them or they would not have ever been cut under any circumstance, so who cares, keep your dreads, fuck the world! -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 10:43 PMWhy so much hate? Wow.. -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 9:08 AMI have always wanted dreads and having very thick curly hair, if I wasn't careful, it would start to dread on it's own. It's funny, that was one of my concerns when I did dread, what African American people would say/think. What's ironic is where I live almost all the black women have "while girl" hair and I'm constantly getting asked questions from them about my dreads. They want to know it my hair is hard to maintain, how often do I wash, etc. and then being told how good it looks. I have never once had a negative comment about being a white girl with dreads from a black person.
-
-
-
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:52 PMI have a good feeling Jesus had dreads, who doesn't wanna be like Jesus? -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 5:34 AMI dunno about Jesus having locks, but I reckon we could bet John the Baptist did! -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 2:34 AMBeksta, we all know there was no such thing as hygene and combing hair in the era Jesus lived...Jesus NOT having dreads is perposterous!lol -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 5:18 AMReally? You might want to let the Egyptians in on your evidence of this. -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Sat, November 14, 2009 - 1:05 AMhahah agreed Rebekah - I think we'd find that we have many misconceptions about that era, especially in terms of hygiene and the like...but John the Baptist, living out in the wilderness? Sounds like a great candidate for locks to me! -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Sat, November 14, 2009 - 6:18 AMA bit off topic, but I always wondered what the Essenes (for those who place value on the evidence that John & Jesus were Essene) thought of John once he left.
For example, from vegan/vegetarian (raw only) foods to honey & locusts, or from quasi-ascetic to downright spartan.
As an aside, it is said the Essenes did not cut their hair and probably had their hair in locks. If John & Jesus hung with them for any length of time (but no one knows - they may not have been Essene or even hung with them or even known of them), they probably both had dreadlocks. -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Sun, November 15, 2009 - 4:43 PMLOL not off-topic!
I dun subscribe to them being Essene at all, nor do I subscribe to the Essenes being the inhabitants of Qumran (but I prolly shouldn't get into that here lol!) I reckon John's family woulda had much more to say about his lifestyle though, considering he was of the lineage of the levitical priesthood (note his dad, Zacharias, was a serving Priest in the Temple)...which necessitates laws of purity. which obviously there must be doubts as to John's keeping in the wilderness...there are theories as to the kosher-ness of Locusts, some claiming that there are a couple species which are kosher, whilst most aren't (although I'm no expert on the matter, but an interesting question lol)...
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Mon, November 16, 2009 - 7:23 PMIn any case I'm certain the first humanoids to roam the planet had no choice but to have dreads. Their hair grew, they wouldn't think to cut or comb or do anything with it. Before we were civil we were just as primitive as the rest of the earths creatures. We may have possesed the potential to become as we are now, but it took millions of years of accidents to build vocabulary, social skills, reasoning, etc. so locks would be inarguably the first original hairstyle of our species wouldn't they? -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Tue, November 17, 2009 - 5:31 AMI don;t know about inarguably, but it's certain that anyone whose hair grew beyond a critical length would certainly deal with tangling & matting. However, that alone does not make for dreadlocks.
Case(s) in point: The Polish Plait, the Vistula Plait, and other forms of neglect-based matting. -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Tue, November 17, 2009 - 7:01 PMWell yes, I guess I was basically trying to say that inevidably, out hair matts and tangles when not groomed -
-
Re: Curtural Appropriation?????
Wed, November 18, 2009 - 5:59 AMTrue...and while dreads are not inevitable, they are highly likely. I know a guy who decided, at 19, to "reject all my basic assumptions", so he stopped cutting his hair (which was very short), quit his job, stopped bathing, stopped cooking his food, etc. Ultimately, he ended up with dreadlocks (the hair matted slowly as his hair grew, and his locks were awesome). He also started bathing again, but continued to eat only raw food. He did embrace technology after a time, though, and is self-employed to a degree (doing odd jobs) and last I spoke to him, also did a bit of part-time work.
So anyway, I think I was nit-picking yesterday and picked on your post, Nori, just because it was there. My apologies. That was at least mildly rude of me.
-
-
-